Battle over guns bill rages at Capitol

References to Northern Illinois University tragedy pepper emotional hearing's debate

 by Leigh Munsil
 published on Tuesday, February 19, 2008

Kaitlin Ochenrider / THE STATE PRESS

ALL EARS: University police chiefs — from left, UA’s Anthony Daykin, NAU’s Gregory Fowler and ASU’s John Pickens — listen to testimony on Senate Bill 1214.

Emotions ran high as a two-and-a-half hour battle waged at the Arizona state legislature Monday afternoon over a bill that would allow concealed weapons to be carried on school grounds.

More than 20 law enforcement officers, community members, teachers and students testified before the Senate judiciary committee on both sides of SB 1214, which would allow anyone with a Concealed Carry Weapon permit to carry a firearm on school grounds — from kindergartens to universities.

References to the recent Northern Illinois University shootings, which left five students dead plus the shooter on Thursday, were common in the lengthy committee hearing, as more than 60 people listened.

The committee did not vote on the bill Monday but will consider it in a later meeting.

If SB 1214 passes the committees, it will go to a vote on the Senate floor.

Sen. Karen Johnson, R-Mesa, a member of the seven-person judiciary committee, is the primary sponsor of SB 1214 and defended it throughout the testimony.

The purpose of the bill, Johnson said, is to give concealed weapons holders the chance to intercept active school shooters in situations like at Columbine High School, Virginia Tech and most recently at NIU.

These shootings have renewed the debate about gun control in America, including the effects of gun-free zones on the safety of students and teachers.

Currently ASU, and all the state's universities, have weapons-free policies across all campuses, following Arizona Board of Regents policy.

The chiefs of police for ASU, UA and NAU sat in a row toward the back of the room and testified one after the other.

Each spoke in opposition to the bill.

John Pickens, the ASU chief of police, said that in an active shooter situation, more people carrying guns would cause confusion and prevent officers from stopping the gunman efficiently.

"I think our job is difficult enough," Pickens said. "I don't believe that more weapons on campus is the solution."

He asked the committee, "How are we going to determine who is the real target?"

On any given day, he said, seven or eight ASU police officers patrol the Tempe campus.

Bryan Soller, president of the Arizona Fraternal Order of Police, said that in officer-involved shootings, even trained policemen often miss their targets because of the stressful situation.

Citizens carrying guns, he said, could easily miss their target — the shooter — and hit an innocent bystander.

"There's a lot of variables in this that really could tragically go wrong," Soller said.

Also, he said, the highly charged atmosphere of campus sporting events could lead to shootings.

"A fight starts, they pull a gun, next thing you know, we have a tragic situation," Soller said.

Briana Getterman, a UA junior, drove up to testify at the hearing in favor of the bill.
"I have countless friends that have been raped on campus," she said. "At least 10."

Getterman received a round of applause, the only of the hearing, when she said she would rather be shot by a police officer who mistakenly thought she was a threat in a school shooting situation than never have the chance to defend herself.

Rick Dalton, a retired Mesa police officer and high school history teacher at Heritage Academy, also testified in support of the bill.

He cried as he described his feelings after arriving at the scene of a shooting too late to save the victim.

In one instance, Dalton said, a man was shot 14 times and responding officers were unable to stop the bleeding.

"I looked in his eyes as he died," he said. "That's helplessness."

In that situation, as in school-shooting situations, police can't stop the shooter or save lives because they don't get to the scene fast enough, Dalton said.

"When I got there, all I could do was pick up the pieces," he said.

Dalton said he wants his grandchildren to be safe on their school campuses.

"The students that I teach, I love them," he said. "I don't want them to be sitting ducks."

Reach the reporter at leigh.munsil@asu.edu.